Turtle-Trading: Die Strategie hinter dem größten Mythos ...
So you wanna trade Forex? - tips and tricks inside
Let me just sum some stuff up for you newbies out there. Ive been trading for years, last couple of years more seriously and i turned my strategies into algorithms and i am currently up to 18 algorithms thats trading for me 24/7. Ive learned alot, listened to hundreds of podcasts and read tons of books + research papers and heres some tips and tricks for any newbie out there.
Strategy - How to... When people say "you need a trading strategy!!" Its because trading is very hard and emotional. You need to stick to your rules at all times. Dont panic and move your stop loss or target unless your rules tell you to. Now how do you make these rules? Well this is the part that takes alot of time. If your rules are very simple (for example: "Buy if Last candles low was the lowest low of the past 10 candles." Lets make this a rule. You can backtest it manually by looking at a chart and going back in time and check every candle. or you can code it using super simple software like prorealtime, MT4 ++ Alot of software is basicly "click and drag" and press a button and it gives you backtest from 10-20-30 years ago in 5 seconds. This is the absolute easiest way to backtest rules and systems. If your trading "pure price action" with your drawn lines and shit, the only way to truly backtest that kind of trading is going in a random forex pair to a random point in time, could be 1 year ago, 1 month ago, 5 years ago.. and then you just trade! Move chart 1 candle at a time, draw your lines and do some "actual trading" and look at your results after moving forward in the chart. If you do not test your strategy your just going in blind, which could be disaster.. Maybe someone told u "this is the correct way to trade" or "this strategy is 90% sure to win every trade!!!" If you think you can do trading without a strategy, then your most likely going to look back at an empty account and wonder why you moved that stop loss or why you didnt take profit etc.. and then your gonna give up. People on youtube, forums, interwebz are not going to give you/sell you a working strategy thats gonna make you rich. If they had a working strategy, they would not give it away/sell it to you.
Money management - How to.... Gonna keep this one short. Risk a small % of your capital on each trade. Dont risk 10%, dont risk 20%. You are going to see loosing trades, your probably gonna see 5-10 loss in a row!! If your trading a 1000$ account and your risking 100$ on each trade (10%) and you loose 5 in a row, your down -50% and probably you cant even trade cus of margin req. Game over.. Now how does one get super rich, super fast, from risking 1-3% of your account on each trade?? Well heres the shocking message: YOU CANT GET RICH FAST FROM TRADING UNLESS YOUR WILLING TO GO ALL IN! You can of course go all in on each trade and if you get em all right, you might get 1000%, then you go all in 1 more time and loose it all... The whole point of trading is NOT going bust. Not loosing everything, cus if you loose it all its game over and no more trading for you.
Find your own trading style.... Everyone is different. You can have an average holding period of 1 month or you could be looking at a 1 min chart and average holding time = 10 minutes. For some, less volatility helps them sleep at night. For others, more volatility gives them a rush and some people crave this. There is no "correct" timeframes, or holding periods, or how much to profit or how much to loose. We are all individuals with different taste in risk. Some dont like risk, others wanna go all in to get rich over night. The smart approach is somewhere in the middle. If you dont risk anything, your not gonna get anything. If you risk everything, your most likely going to loose everything. When people are talking about trading style, this is kinda what that means.
There are mainly 2 ways to trade: Divergence and Convergence. Or in other words: Mean reversion or trend following. Lets talk about them both: Trend following is trying to find a trend and stay with the trend until its over. Mean reversion is the belief that price is too far away from the average XX of price, and sooner or later, price will have to return to its average/mean (hence the name: MEAN reversion). Trend following systems usually see a lower winrate (30-40% winrate with no money management is not uncommon to see when backtesting trend following systems.. You can add good money management to get the winrate % higher. Why is the % winrate so low? Well a market, whatever that market is, tend to get real choppy and nasty right after a huge trend. So your gonna see alot of choppy fake signals that might kill 5-6 trades in a row, until the next huge trend starts which is going to cover all the losses from the small losses before the trend took off. Then you gotta hold that trade until trade is done. How do you define "when trend starts and stops"? Well thats back to point 1, find a strategy. Try defining rules for an entry and exit and see how it goes when you backtest it. For mean reversion the win % is usually high, like 70-90% winrate, but the average winning trade is alot smaller than the average loosing trade. this happens because you are basicly trying to catch a falling knife, or catch a booming rocket. Usually when trading mean reversion, waiting for price to actually reverse can very often leave you with being "too late", so you kinda have to find "the bottom" or "the top" before it actually has bottomed/ topped out and reversed. How can you do this you ask? Well your never going to hit every top or every bottom, but you can find ways to find "the bottom-ish" or "the top-ish", thens ell as soon as price reverts back to the mean. Sometimes your gonna wish you held on to the trade for longer, but again, back to point 1: Backtest your rules and figure that shit out.
Read these 4 points and try to follow them and you are at least 4 steps closer to being a profitable trader. Some might disagree with me on some points but i think for the majority, people are going to agree that these 4 points are pretty much universal. Most traders have done or are doing these things every day, in every trade. Here is some GREAT material to read: Kevin Davey has won trading championship multiple times and he has written multiple great books, from beginner to advanced level. Recommend these books 100%, for example: Building winning algorithmic trading systems" will give you alot to work with when it comes to all 4 of the above points. Market wizards, Reminiscences of a stock operator are 2 books that are a great read but wont give you much "trading knowledge" that you can directly use for your trading. Books on "The turtles" are great reading. Then you have podcasts and youtube. I would stay away from youtube as much as possible when it comes to "Heres how to use the rsi!!!" or "this strategy will make you rich!!". Most youtube videoes are made by people who wanna sell you a course or a book. Most of this is just pure bullshit. Youtube can very harmfull and i would honestly advice about going there for "strategy adivce" and such. Podcasts tho are amazing, i highly recommend: Better systems trader, Chat with traders, Top traders unplugged, We study billionairs, to name a few :) Also, on a less funny note.. Please realize that you are, and i am, real fucking stupid and lazy compared to the actual pro's out there. This is why you should not go "all in" on some blind stupid strategy youve heard about. This is why this is indeed VERY FUCKING HARD and most, if not everyone has busted an account or two before realizing just this. Your dumb.. your not going to be super rich within 1 year.. You can not start with 500$ account and make millions! (some might have been able to do this, but know that for every winner, theres 999 loosers behind him that failed... Might work fine first 5 trades, then 1 fuckup tho and ur gone.. And lastly: Try using a backtesting software. Its often FREE!!! (on a demo account) and often so simple a baby could use it. If your trading lines and such there exists web broweser "games" and softwares that lets you go "1 and 1 candle ahead" in random forex pairs and that lets you trade as if its "real" as it goes. A big backtesting trap however is backtesting "losely" by just drawing lines and looking at chart going "oh i would have taken this trade FOR SURE!! I would have made so much money!!" however this is not actually backtesting, its cherry picking and its biased beyond the grave, and its going to hurt you. Try going 1 candle at a time doing "real and live" trades and see how it goes. Bonus point!! many people misunderstands what indicators like the RSI is telling you. Indeed something is "overbought" or "oversold" but only compared to the last average of xx amounts of bars/candles. It doesn't tell you that RIGHT NOW is a great time to sell or buy. It only tells you that the math formula that is RSI, gives you a number between 1-100, and when its above 70 its telling you that momentum is up compared to the last average 14 candles. This is not a complete buy/sell signal. Its more like a filter if anything. This is true for MOST indicators. They INDICATE stuff. Dont use them as pure buy/sell signals.. At least backtest that shit first! Your probably gonna be shocked at the shitty results if you "buy wehn rsi is undeer 30 and sell when RSI is above 70". Editedit: Huge post already, why not copy paste my comment with an example showing the difference in trend following vs mean reversion: The thing about trend following is that we never know when a trade starts and when it ends. So what often happens is that you have to buy every breakout going up, but not every breakout is a new trend. Lets do an example. Check out the photo i included here: https://imageshost.eu/image/image.RcC THE PHOTO IS JUST AN EXAMPLE THAT SHOWS WHY A TYPICAL TREND FOLLOWING STRATEGY HAVE A "LOW" WINRATE. THE PHOTO IS NOT SHOWING AN EXAMPLE OF MY STRATEGIES OR TRADING.
We identify the big orange trend up.
We see the big break down (marked with the vertical red line) this is telling us we are not going higher just yet. Our upwards trend is broken. However we might continue going up in a new trend, but when will that trend come?
We can draw the blue trend very earyly using highs and lows, lines up and down. Then we begin to look for breakouts of the upper blue line. So every time price breaks upper blue line we have to buy (cus how else are we going to "catch the next trend going up?)
As you can see we get 5 false breakouts before the real breakout happens! Now if you could tell fake breakouts from real breakouts, your gonna be rich hehe. For everyone else: Take every signal you can get, put a "tight" stop loss so in case its a fake signal you only loose a little bit. Then when breakout happens as you can clearly see in chart, your going to make back all the small losses. So in this example we fail 5 times, but get 1 HUGE new trend going further up. This 1 huge trade, unless we fuck it up and take profits too early or shit like that, is going to win back all those small losses + more. This is why trend following has a low winrate. You get 5 small loss and 1 big win. Now lets flip this! Imagine if your trading Mean reversion on all the same red arrows! So every time price hits the blue line, we go short back to the bottom (or middle) again! You would have won 5 trades with small profits, but on that last one you would get stopped out so hard. Meaning 5 small wins, 1 big loss (as some have pointed out in comments, if you where trading mean reverting you would wanna buy the lows as well as short the tops - photo was suppose to show why trend following strategies have a lower % winrate.) Final edit: sorry this looks like a wall of text on ur phones.
Hi! So, I have recently started researching forex trading heavily and decided that I want to start getting into it. I live in Canada and am wondering about the best brokers for a Canadian to use, as well as good brokers to start out with using only small amounts of money (a couple hundred dollars). I am currently using a demo account on FXTM and have read differing opinions about this broker. Also, I have been reading about many different strategies. Has anyone had very good or very bad experiences with any traditional strategies? i.e. moving averages, turtle strategy, Williams %R, RSI
About to start trading for the first time. Anyone wanna talk?
I don't really have any specific questions, just looking for general advice. Well, maybe one...see the bottom. I've gone through most of the babypips school, and just finished reading Courtney Smith's book. I have somewhat of a bit of background in game theory due to hobbies (I was one of the better players in the country in the national tournament scene of a certain video game, and have close friends who have been ranked in chess and poker who I have been playing with and learned a lot of game theory from), and tend to prefer boring, "turtle" strategies. I considered scalping, but I don't think it will fit my lifestyle (time consuming). So, I'm probably going to look at position trading the daily charts, and I'll start mostly with the methods from the book I was reading. I want to be as disciplined as possible- picking entry/exit points before entering the trade, doing as much of it automatically via stops as possible (which I will look at and adjust only according to TA), and looking at my positions once per day. No emotion. On a long flight yesterday I finally sat down and wrote up a trading plan, buying on a few techniques, all of which have set stops. I'll calculate my position size so that if I am stopped out (stops based on technical analysis) I will lose 1% of my account value. This also means that positions with wide stops will not be very profitable. I will write down every trade and what signal I used to make the trade. Every thirty trades, I'll eliminate my worst-performing signal and replace it with a different one, and see how I do. I did some backtesting on EUUSD over the first few months of 2009. Trading on inside days seemed profitable, as well as reversal days. Channel breakouts were iffy...I used the ADX filter to exit, and that let me exit at really good times, but because the stops were too wide (for long position, I was buying at 55 day high breakout and setting stop to 20-day low breakout) I was barely making any money off of it and that was wiped out by the bad trades. I need to figure out where I can place tighter stops on Channel Breakouts without removing too many winning trades. My biggest concern is that inside days seemed too consistent...I usually made almost as much money as I was risking on my stop every time I did it, barring one or two times where I basically broke even. Seems like a couple losing trades could've set me back pretty quickly and I should be seeing more. I should probably do more backtesting, but I feel a trial by fire would work better. I'll probably just set the risk to 0.5% instead of 1% and start a very small account and see how it does (I'd have to lose hundreds of trades in a row to get wiped out). Am I doing this right? And, the real question- what broker should I use? Right now I'm looking at Oanda. I saw a poster saying good things about IB and I'd rather use Ninjatrader because I hate MT 4, so I might look at shifting over to them when I have more money, but I don't have $25k liquid cash available to open an account with them. Oanda's flexibility with position size seems ideal for my ~1% risk on stop plan. However, the more I read about Forex brokers, the more nervous I get...they seem to make money when you lose and engage in all kinds of unscrupulous tactics like stop-hunting, slippage failing to trigger stops, and raising the spreads during big moves. Feels more like playing against the house than trading. This alone makes me feel tempted to go trade stock options instead with the same plan and see if that works. Thoughts?
The turtle trading strategy uses a dual breakout system to enter a trade. The idea behind this is to identify and profit from newly developing trends. The two systems work together and complement one another. New trends often get underway after a breakout of some kind. A breakout is simply where the price starts to move strongly in a new direction, moving outside of an established range, and ... You can see the fast breakout trading system below from forex.com. Application in Today’s Market. If the turtle’s made $175 million in five years, you may be wondering how soon you can start implementing the Turtle Trading strategy in your portfolio. Not so fast. The Turtle Trading strategy was implemented in the 1980s, almost forty years ago. In the last forty years, the market has ... Turtle-Trading – Ziele, Märkte, Zeitfenster und Positionsgröße Die Turtle-Trader verfolgten das Ziel, den Handel in einem stabilen Trend zu eröffnen und im Erfolgsfall durch „Pyramidisieren“ laufend zu vergrößern. Sie fokussierten sich auf liquide Werte wie . Öl, Edelmetalle, Devisen, Kaffee und Kakao, Zucker, Baumwolle. Die Trader handelten nur in zwei Zeitfenstern: einem ... The Turtle Trading Strategy. Basically, the Turtle system focused primarily on commodities, but the same system can be used in the Forex market as well because is a technical system it can be applied to any asset classes. The components of the Turtle Trading system are as follows: Markets: What to buy or sell; Position Sizing: How much to buy ... The Turtle Trading Strategy and Rules The turtle traders were taught how to implement a trend following strategy by Richard Dennis. The idea is to buy futures breaking out to the upside of the trading range and sell short when the downside breaks out. This is a strategy where you attempt to ride the momentum of an asset, whether it is trending up or down. The turtle trading system is a rule ... Geschichte des Turtle Trading Systems Das Turtle Trading System geht auf Richard Dennis zurück, der an der Wall Street ein legendärer Parket-Händler war. Mit Börsengewinnen in Höhe von 80 Millionen Dollar sorgte er 1987 an der Wall Street für Furore. Dennis arbeite in seiner Trading-Firma mit einem Partner, William Eckhardt, zusammen. Die beiden hatten einen jahrelangen Disput über die ... The Turtle Strategy is an iconic trading method that has earned millions of dollars for traders all over the world. It was implemented as an experiment to prove that any person can become a successful trader if they follow the rules. With this strategy, you’ll discover new money-making opportunities. Despite its respectful age, the Turtle strategy can teach you a few useful lessons, giving ...
David Paul, MD of VectorVest, explains the ‘Turtle trading’ strategy… the VectorVest way! Rules of the strategy - Pick stocks who have witnessed a break above 13-week high & have the highest ... Turtle Soup Trading Strategy & Alerts based on the following rules: Long Entry - New Low based on the last 20 candles - Low broken at least 4 candles later before closing above it Short Entry ... Sein Buch "Die Strategien der Turtle Trader" befasst sich als eines der Ersten eingehend mit Risikomanagement und zeigt, dass man jeden gewöhnlichen Menschen zum Trader machen kann, wenn man ihm ... www.americanagmarketing.com Few people associate Eddie Murphy, Dan Ackroyd and the 1983 movie "Trading Places" with one of the greatest trading stories of al... Mehr Informationen erhalten Sie auf meiner Homepage "www.turtle-trading.eu" Mit dem Turtle-Experiment hat Richard Dennis letztlich bewiesen, dass Trading keine vorgegebene Gabe der Natur, sondern erlernbar ist. Die Turtle-Strategie lässt sich mit dem Trading-Desk ganz ... Turtle Soup Trading Strategy More profitable Strategies and Methods: www.learnthepriceaction.com